Nightmare in Glens Falls
-
- March
- 15
(Updated with podcast below)
I cannot believe that I’m about to sit down and write another story about a local team losing.
Peekskill got blown out in the morning. Mount Vernon squandered a fourth-quarter lead and lost at the buzzer in the afternoon.
It’s one of the most crushing days in Section 1 basketball this decade; definitely the worst that I’ve been a part of. I’ll come back later with more thoughts on these two games. Honestly, I can’t begin to fathom the fact that BOTH teams lost. I could understand one. But I never imagined both.
Well, as Mookie Jones said, and then Kevin Jones echoed to me a few minutes ago:
“Life goes on.”
Update, 8 p.m.: Listen to the podcast for my thoughts on both games:
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on Saturday, March 15th, 2008 at 3:40 pm by Kevin Devaney Jr..
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...and you get to spend the evening with your lovely wife
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Oh poor Kevin. The 2 teams spoiled you by winning so often. It’s your own fault for hyping them before they won.
I really feel for Mookie and Kevin Jones who of course will go on to play Big East Basketball but they have won all the time and the seniors would always be praised and now as seniors they cant come up on top. But as they said…. life goes on. They had such great careers.
Good Luck in the Big East
ahmaz
How can u feel sorry for them they got the world by the calzones. They will more then survive. Most would be happy just for their opportunity. It was a good run
Well, Kev its over, I am in shock too there must be alot of tears, in MV
How could he not hype them?? all they did all season was win and give reason to think that they would bring home the championship. What happened today is that they didn’t play their best game against teams that you can’t slip up against, and those teams took advantage and won.
Thanks for the near real-time play-by-play. Very useful for those of us back home. Tough games; congratulations on good seasons for the local teams.
This is what I’m talking about:
“Mount Vernon is the King of New York. Peekskill is the team everyone wants to be.” ~Devaney
Not anymore.
Kev, Can I have the stats for the Mt Vernon game pleeze
Kev can i have the stats from Mt. Vernon game pleeze
My wife and I sat through the Peekskill game in shock. I turned to her in the 4th quarter, with Peekskill down by 20, and I said ” I got a real bad feeling today. I never thought that Peekskill would lose. Mt Vernon may be in trouble”. I really can’t say anything about Peekskill. That just was not the same team that played on such a high level all year. Everything that could have went wrong did.
As for Mt Vernon, horrible foul shooting. Mt Vernon grabbed almost every rebound, and missed tons of put backs. Keteema Brooks played a great first half, and imploded in the 4th. One stretch, he turned the ball over 4 straight posessions, and that was probably only half of the turnovers in the 4th. Keteema really settled down to play well for Mt Vernon in the playoffs, and I really felt for him.
Certainly, only a terrific team would have taken advantage of the Mt Vernon mistakes. Bighop Maginn hit all of their foul shots, and pressured Mt Vernon into those turnovers. I wish them well tomorrow. I can’t see Niagra Falls beating them, because Niagra Falls just does not look very good. Anything can happen, but I feel that the AA championship was decided today.
Tough finish for some excellent Westchester teams. Peekskill, Iona Prep, North Salem, Tuckahoe, and Mt Vernon.
What a strange year. The best teams in the various leagues lost. Rice, Peekskill, and Mt Vernon. Throw in Iona Prep, who probably was the best in the CHSAA A, and you just have to shake your head. All we need is Lincoln to lose to Boys and Girls tomorrow for the PSAL Championship, and the icing will be finished on the cake.
I feel very bad for both Mt. Vernon and Peekskill. Today just shows that sometimes the ball just does not bounce your way. After the team I support lost a really tough one I know that games like today are crushing to the spirit.
I hope people acknowledge the great seasons that both Peekskill and Mt. Vernon had as well as how both programs represent the Westchester area with class.
I just came home from the game. It’s quite simple. Peekskill played against a team that had GREAT guard play. I don’t use that word, often. Today, it was appropriate. Tiche was outstanding and no one from Peekskill decided to take it upon themselves to try and stop him. If you want to see what a major Division 1 guard looks like, it’s him.
They were not playing against a bunch of stiffs from Oneonta or overrated garbage from Port Chester. Face facts, both of those team would have gotten blown out by Dewitt, too.
As for Mount Vernon, what could they do? They missed free throws and layups. You can’t do that at that level. Bishop McGinn’s guards were unbelievable. They had a sophomore, I forget his name, number 2, that decided he was not going to lose the game. He played like a senior. His future is REALLY BRIGHT.
It was a great year for both teams. Sometimes, writer’s expectations and statements are absurd. Mount Vernon, “King of New York.” Based upon what, exactly?
Jayden,
You just came from there and claim that Niagara Falls can’t beat Bishop Maginn. Did you just not see two games where the unexpected occurred?
As for your statement about Boys and Girls, they have three major Division 1 prospects and beat Bishop McGinn. It would surprise no one if they beat Lincoln. Look at their team. Revenge would be sweet, especially since they lost to Lincoln, last year.
Jamesville-Dewitt just came out and did the job. I saw the game at the County Center and went up to Glens Falls because I just knew this would be a game, forget all that ink they’ve been spilling about Peekskill blowouts. I figured this would be a close game, but Peekskill would come out on top. But I expected the game of the year in Class A, not the result that took place.
I had a chance to talk with Bob McKenney after the game, a hell of a nice guy and a great coach, suspenders and all. Very affable, chatted with my wife and kids. What I saw this morning was an amazing game by Nick Pascale, the 6’ 11” center, so much energy and desire, he out-rebounded the entire Peekskill team it seemed, skying for boards, and his effort caused Mookie Jones to get tangled up and earn a 4th foul as they both went after a loose ball.
Pascale started slow, missing his first four foul shots and not scoring until later in the first half. Howard Triche’s (ex ‘cuse) nephew handled the ball well, attacked the hole, and moved the ball around, and Alshwan Hymes had another amazing game, although he too didn’t get off early either. Hymes shot threes that made the County Center game competitive. This morning he attacked, and had a timely three in the 3rd quarter that started to put Peekskill away.
Jones had 23 points with his new boss Jim Boeheim in the building watching, but really was not much of a factor when you consider he hit back-to-back treys, 2-2 for 6 points to start things off for Peekskill, and went 5-6 from the free-throw line during garbage time, after being fouled on two consecutive possessions from behind the three point arc. When the game started slipping away from Peekskill, they came down and had Jones huck up one jumper after another, all misses, in an attempt to have their best player shoot them back into the game. The Watts kid was a complete non-factor, I was surprised to see he had 9 points, it seemed more like 2.
I thought Peekskill had a late run in them but they got no closer than 14 in the 4th quarter after falling behind by 20, then J-D answered, including an emphatic dunk to stop any thought of a Red Devils’ come-back.
After the game Red Rams coach Bob McKenney hung around with his baby daughter riding on his shoulders, exchanging small talk with well-wishers. Boeheim sat and munched popcorn while watching the Baldwin vs. Niagra Falls game (good luck to NFHS, they’ll be blown out tomorrow—their big man doesn’t even run the floor) like an average fan. Mookie Jones later came out in an SU pull-over (and not one of the cheesy ones every non alum/student is wearing, like they sell at Kohls). I never saw the two SU men come within 50 feet of one another.
So back to Bob McKenney. I asked him if his team was eager to get a rematch with Peekskill and he replied in the affirmative, his kids wanted this game, bad. They worked harder and deserved to win in a blowout.
Funny thing, I’m aure a lot of the Jamesville-DeWitt fans will be pulling for Mookie Jones as an Orangeman next season, filling seats in the Carrier Dome to cheer on their new freshman. I hope he has a great Orange career.
Al
Losing sometimes builds character. Good luck at the next level boys!!!
Kevin,
I’m not sure whats worse, taking a big loss a little too well or taking it very, very bad!
My stomach hurts again..I suffered big time the night Bishop Ford came back from the dead to beat Iona Prep in tyhe 2nd half at Iona College. I am still bothered by the Briarcliff loss to North Salem ( but congratulations to N Salem for a commendable state run)..And today, the Peekskill loss shocks my system once again. I take no solace in Mount Vernon’s loss, as they are the premier HS basketball program in Westchester County…
Looking forward…..Imagine if Mount Vernon, Peekskill, and Iona Prep played in the Slam Dunk Tournament at the County Center next winter? Add 3 or 4 competitive upstate or city schools and that will be some basketball event to see…
Stats please does anyone have them?
NYC_Hoops27,
When did Boys and Girls beat Bishop Maginn? That is a very strange statement. Lincoln is the favorite. I am not going to say that they will win, but they are certainly the favorite.
My statement was, “I do not see Niagra Falls beating Bishop Maginn, but anything can happen”. That goes without saying. In any given game, any team can win, but one team goes in as the favorite. Today Clemson beat Duke, and Arkansas beat Tennessee. Those lossers were overwhelming favorites, but in a one game playoff, a team can get taken out. Bad foul shooting, a star player in foul trouble, a costly turnover etc.
In a best of 7, the best team usually will win, but a one and done playoff game, and there will be some major upsets in every sport. That is what makes basketball in HS and College so intersting, because, anything can happen, and the best team does not always win.
I have not left Glens Falls. There is still some more basketball to see.
Here you go:
http://www.maxpreps.com/FanPages/BoxScores.mxp/AreaID-11940593-76f2-41e2-8cd5-a2455ea28a33/ContestID-a269d9ee-c6e6-43d8-a029-a0005ec0bbe8/opntid-afd2e773-0612-4291-a5b5-3bf1faa74e90/SchoolID-c5aad30f-335b-49fd-9393-ff8147550312/Boys_Varsity_Basketball_Winter_07-08/NewYork
NFHS will lose by 20. The teams that upset Peekskill and Mt. Vernon had the players on the floor to pull it off. Neither win was in the ‘miracle’ category.
I thought MV/McGinn was a great game – two high quality evenly matched programs really going at it. I also thought both teams showed a lot of sportsmanship and class – no cheap shots, no cry babies just student athletes playing at a high level. I’m sure MV was devastated but they picked up the pieces and got in line to shake hands – they handled themselves well in defeat.
MV will look at missed layups, free throws and turnovers as to why they lost but there was more to it than that. Maginn handled the MV press very well in the 2nd half. While the press did force some turnovers – I thought it became a liability as the half wore on. When Maginn got the ball past half-court they usually had numbers on their side and a lane to the hoop. The Maginn players were big and strong enough to finish and MV often found themselves in 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 situations – which lead to layups or foul shots.
The other big factor was Buie. He was simply amazing in the 2nd half. His ability to go to the cup as well as create his own shot on the perimeter was a dagger for Mt Vernon. MV had absolutely no perimeter game in the 2nd half. To their credit they attacked inside the paint very well – they did not got bullied by the very physical post players for Maginn. In fact, the only offense MV had was inside the paint – if anyone could have got wet from outside MV would be playing Niagara Falls tomorrow. Kevin Jones played well and hit a couple of impossible shots in traffic but he was well covered for most of the game. I was hoping MV could find a way to get it into his hands for that final shot but it wasn’t meant to be.
Trailing with 2 minutes left, I still felt MV would pull it off – as they did against Newburgh last year. Maginn proved to be a far smarter team than Newburgh and knew how play with a lead – they stayed aggressive right until the final buzzer.
No losers out there today – just great basketball players.
unbiased:
you stated: “I’m sure MV was devastated but they picked up the pieces and got in line to shake hands – they handled themselves well in defeat.”
are you serious? they handled themselves well in defeat b/c they shook hands after the game – isn’t that what you are suppose to do!!!
let’s go sylven and cross!
I’m surprised and sorry to see both Peekskill and Mount Vernon lose. I think “shocked” may be a more fitting word. They are both great programs with excellent coaches and some very talented kids. I expected both games to be close, maybe closer than most people thought, and I wouldn’t have been surprised if one of our local teams lost, but to have Peekskill blown out AND Mt Vernon lose, thats hard to believe.
I think the Peeksill loss can be understood by looking at two key factors. 1) J-D felt they were robbed at the County Center, perhaps justifiably so. They came into this game extremely hungry. Peekskill came into this game undefeated and a bit overconfident after several huge blowouts and because they were on the winning end of the close County Center game. Its almost impossible for a coach to keep a team on top of its game coming off three 50pt wins on an undefeated season – the early start certainly didn’t help this point either. Peekskill has also been in the process of an anointing all season long…apparently some of the kids started to believe the hype. I also should say, Jamesville-Dewitt is one of the best Class A teams I’ve ever seen – Peekskill losing to them is nothing to hang their head about. Triche is a Major D1 players, Pascale is a lot better that I thought he’d be and Hymes hit some very big shots.
The second key factor I see is Mookie’s play. All year long I’ve been waiting for Mookie to break out and get back to the form we all saw last year and over the summer – it never seemed to happen. I couldn’t say if he was coasting a bit since he got his scholarship or allowing his other teammates to be more involved. Either way, there are too many talented players out there to think one can turn it on and turn it off whenever they want. Mookie clearly tried to turn it on today, but there just wasn’t enough there. Triche definitely impressed me more today.
As far as MV’s game, I think the major early season question mark came back to bite them after it being not much of an issue all year – guard play. Early in the season many were questioning if Brooks, Lessane and Hinds could step it up enough. I thought these three kids did an admirable job all season and at some points playing excellent basketball (the Rice game being the only major exception I can think of). Today the guards just weren’t able to get it done. I think Kevin Jones had a HUGE advantage down low, but the guards just made too many mistakes and cost them too many opportunities to get the ball to Kevin.
Jayden,
I definitely agree that Lincoln losing tomorrow to Boys & Girls would put the icing on the cake. Boys & Girls beat Lincoln earlier this year, but Lincoln has to go into the game the favorites. At this rate, Maginn or Holy Cross will probably win the Federations…who would’ve guessed that possibility a month ago?
? (aka bobby knight changing screen names) –
Ummmmmm – do you really have a problem with that statement or are you trying to be provocative?
Yes, I thought the Knights showed maturity and composure in defeat – I’m sorry if that’s too controversial for you. Reference some of the behavior by other players and teams after they have lost championship games this season or last.
Shouldn’t you be tossing a chair across the gym or choking some kid during a time out? Or possibly you’re choking another part of your anatomy while reading this blog? On that note I am serious!!!
hoops fan,
You seem to know about local teams. What is your honest opinion about how Mount Vernon, Peekskill and Iona Prep would fare against each other next year. Should the match ups actually happen?
i know some of us are still in awe about peekskill and mv losing but the federations go on! and they lost to two good teams. i think there needs to be more input and credit on how and why dewitt and mcginn won rather then why and how peekskill and mv lost…if peekskill and mv won today all we would have heard about is how great they are and how well coached they are and all the running they did..etc and i guess that would’ve been justified…..but how about doing that for dewitt and mcginn now – they deserve it. i personally thought rice would’ve been here – that’s the only shock to me!
would like to see holy cross win it…that would be a great way for sylven to go out – i’m sure a lot of the chsaa and queens fans think he deserves it!
jayden – who is left in the “a” now? asking you b/c you are always up to date.
It is very doubtful that Mt. Vernon will play Peekskill or Iona Prep next year. Coach Cimmino made it clear he will play all non league games against either out of state powers or NYC CHSAA AA teams. Mt. Vernon has earned the right to be selective with their non league schedule due to them being looked at as a national power.
I think there is a chance that Iona Prep and Peekskill can play because you have to figure that Peekskill is a lock for the Slam Dunk as the defending tournament winner. I also know that Iona Prep has a strong desire to play in that tournament each year. Iona Prep has always wanted to play the best teams in that tournament as they have played Ook Hill Academy and Grady from Brooklyn in previous years.
MV just lost this GAME! Very bad ball control. MV could have steam rolled this B.Maginn team in th 4th qtr b/c they were giving up but MV just kept them in the game by throwing the ball away and not going to Kevin Jones. Maybe there was some arguments or tension that we didnt know of before the game in the locker room. I never seen 6 straight turnovers in a row by any MV guards in history. They threw the ball away 5 straight times in a row, 3 completely thrown to no one and 2 into B.Maginn defenders hands. MV had 8 turnovers in the 4th qtr without it ever touching its STAR PlAYERS hand…..I Tell you this, Kevin Jones is a much better young man than I was or am even NOW. In my senior year with the career & season he has had I would have tore someone a NEW ONE after the game for not getting him the ball in the final qtr everytime down. It would have definately ben some fist thrown in the locker room after the game and on the bus on the way home. But instead, This Shows the character of this kid he congradulates his teamates on a great season. Remarkable! Section 1 should really look into investigating the guards from MV for point shaving or check some bank accounts this was a awwfulll display of ball posession by MV. they didn’t pass into the post to Kevin Jones hardly at all. Buie was locked up in the 1st half but finished very strong and played well the whole Game…. Thank for the Career and The memories Kevin Jones
I tip my hat to Coach Hurley and Bishop Maginn. They did what they had to to keep it close, and it paid off. There were at least three opportunities for MV to pull away and change the makeup of the game. Two plus minutes left in the second, they had many chances to pull away into double digits but missed shots. Two times in the third even after Maginn tied the score, but missed layups and missed foul shots ultimately was devastating. I stopped counting at 5 make-able layups, and I stopped counting prior to the fourth quarter.
But given that, MV still could’ve put this game away. We got the attempts in the paint that we wanted, all the power basketball numbers, rebounds etc… we were winning. But at the end of the day, like Coach Cimmino loves to say, “you have to put the ball in the basket one more than your opponent.” And that didn’t happen.
AS for the “rock star, royalty” thing, both MV and Peekskill players earned that reputation based on their hard work over a long period of time. If you get one hit record, and nothing more, you’re a “flash in the pan.” But if you make hits consistently, you’re a star! There’s an aura about stars, even when they fall short of what’s expected of them, the way they carry themselves is very noticable, and still lends to their “star quality”. Peekskill and MV ballers, even in losing an opportunity to make more history, will always be remembered as stars and royalty. As it should be. I wish all the seniors on both teams the best of luck, and thanks for the many memories they’ve given us over the last four years.
As for todays games, JD is a shoo in to win. Maginn can win if they contain NFHS guards. Tabb, Crittenden and Agee are all very offensive minded players. Corral them, and Maginn will be State Champions.
Many times we like to think because Team A beat Team B and Team B beat Team C that Team A would also beat Team C. That’s simple not true.
Here are some examples. Peekskill played Spring Valley in it’s season opener. It was a close game for a long time. They pulled away, late 3rd quarter and won by 17 or so. Iona Prep DESTROYED Spring Valley. It was close to a 40 point victory. Does that mean that Iona Prep beats Peekskill by 20 or more?
Peekskill beat White Plains in OT at WCC. Mount Vernon blew out White Plains at White Plains. Does that mean Mount Vernon puts it on Peekskill?
The game is about matchups. Look at the tough games Peekskill played this year. Their opponents had good guard play. I’m not going to pick on Ralph Watts but he has to be the slowest wing player I’ve seen, period. Against Wings Academy, guys were blowing past him, same for White Plains and he could not guard anyone on Dewitt.
Yesterday, the ball reversal and penetration killed Peeksill. JD also shot lights out in the 3rd quarter. Give them credit. Stop looking for excuses. They got outplayed and outrebounded. JD is good, period.
As for McGinn and MV, teams that press don’t like to be pressed. Who cares if they were not big. They played big. When your 6 “3” guys are playing above the rim, height won’t matter and their guards were lightning quick. Yes, MV missed some layups and some free throws. However, what HS team plays perfect basketball?
The two plays that I will remember were Brooks’ five second call and the deflected pass at midcourt. You have to make a move to the basket. He did not take a shot all day and did not look to shoot. It costs them, yesterday, just like it did at Linden. The second huge play was with 13 seconds left. They caused a turnover and KJ was all alone on the break. The pass was deflected at mid-court. You cannot telegraph that pass.
It’s funny how both Westchester teams were predicted to win, rather easily, too. No one likes to pay attention to what occurred, previously. JD felt robbed in December and McGinn’s two guard scored only 2 points, last year, vs MV, in a 3 point loss. Did anyone think that would happen, again?
Peekskill was a classy team and deserved to win while Mount Vernon was rowdy and arrogant and they probably deserved to lose.
NYC27,your analysis is a joke,as far as Peek is concerned all you witnessed yesterday is #1 get beaten by #2 on any given day no excuses.
My analysis is a joke. Why? Because I wrote the truth about Ralph’s lack of speed? He’s not quick. Deal with it.
I wrote clearly “Yesterday, the ball reversal and penetration killed Peeksill. JD also shot lights out in the 3rd quarter. Give them credit. Stop looking for excuses. They got outplayed and outrebounded. JD is good, period.”
No one is making excuses. Maybe you should learn to read a little better and not be so sensitive.
Tough way to end for MV and PK. I wonder if the SEC 1 limit on # of games to 20 hurts their ability to play good teams during the regular season. So many of their league games are non-competitive. It is difficult to correct mistakes when you win every game by 30.
NYC HOOPS27-
Ralph Watts didn’t play in the Wings Academy Game.. He was hammpered by a knee injury… And for the White Plains game he was still recovering.. you don’t know anything about Peekskill Basketball your probably some bandwagon rider. Everyone give it a rest already and quit badgering Ralph.. He’s a great kid, excellent player, and left Lakeland to only better his potential..
Please people if your going to state facts such as NYC Hoops who knows nothing make sure their right.. Ralph was hurt in the Ossining game and didn’t play in the Wings Game. After that he was still recovering from his knee injury and up next was the Slam Dunk Tournament which we saw he didn’t play that well and actually didn’t play much… Once again Peekskill you guys did a great job and we’re proud of you. Like Coach P said in the paper this morning, “our season starts today,” They are going to practice their butts off to make sure they are not put into the same position as this year and that is why they are such a competitive team year in and year out. Hardwork over powers Talent..
NYChoops27, I believe you said that your father coached Gompers in the 90s . Does this make you a scout? Calling out Watts like you did is gutless. If you want to call a kid out, put your real name up there. As far as MV being the king of NY, they are. Cimmino is the 2nd most respected Public school coach in America( to Hurley).Their program is routinely the best in the state, they do it the right way and every community in NY would want to have the program that MV does.They didnt win the Chip this year, but they will be back and they will get there the ” right way”.
Rileygirl
I never said my father coached Gompers. Secondly, I never called Watts out. I simply said that he was not a quick wing player. I never said that he was not a good basketball player, HUGE DIFFERENCE.
As for Mount Vernon being King of New York, that’s not true, either. Again, it does not take away from their accomplishments. You have to look at all teams. Rice, Lincoln, St. Raymond’s, as examples, have as rich a history as Mount Vernon.
Had Kevin written “Mt. Vernon is one of the most accomplished New York Public School team of the last decade” I would not have disagreed. However, to call them “King of New York” is premature and does a disservice to teams that have accomplished what they have.
While Coach Cimino is a great coach, someone who has a calming influence on his players and on the game, itself, he’s not the only one. Landon Cox in Chicago has built a powerhouse program, Stu Vetter has done the same in Washington, D.C., Loren Glover at Artesia in California. The list goes on and on.
We forget, that no matter how great a coach he is, sending countless kids to Division 1 and having them all graduate, a tribute to the seeds he’s planted, he’s not the only one. We just think because he’s a NY Coach he has to be the greatest.
I really believe kevin and everyone else on this blog jinxed peekskill and section 1 by overlooking J-D and Maginn. People start talking Moookie up as the most accomplished high school bball player in NYS history before his career is over. Let him finish his bussiness as a senior than start comparing him to the all time greats. Section 1 is not invincible as yesterday showed. Also i believe i remember kevin being a little cocky about Dobbs ferry in the state football tourney. Dont put extra pressure on these kids anymore.
I agree with you sleepy
however great job with the updates, and yes life goes on..
Youre correct that hes not the only one, but if you were around the program in the late 80s and early 90s then you would know the transformation that this program has gone under. The ‘91 team for example was top 5 in the country, but many of the kids didnt go to class( for extended periods of time) and a few of them have had incredible hardships that occur when hoops is the ONLY priority.
Its a difference of opinions, but Cimmino has made MV the best Public school in NY, being that NY is the king of hoops in America, this says a lot. Lincoln could also be in this conversation but the way Lincoln goes about business with the transfers and having the pick of the cities best players almost puts them as a private school. MV has also beaten them head to head the last two Feds theyve faced.
As far as Watts, calling him the slowest wing youve ever seen is either making it obvious you dont watch hoops or youre being a clown. Its obvious you watch a lot of hoops, so you just wanted to dog a 16 year old kid
I also messed up in saying Hurley coaches Publics.
I was also at the Civic Center for the games yesterday. Most of you called it right as far as giving JD and Maginn the credit they deserve. I still haven’t seen the stats, but I would venture to guess that MV shot no better than 65% from the line. Awful. No need to harp on the TO’s. I think Peekskill’s biggest problem yesterday (besides JD and Triche) was the fact that Brickhouse was shut down. Peeksill isn’t the greatest perimiter team and if they can’t get the points off of the turnovers and putbacks, yesterday’s result happens….
Rileygirl
I won’t disagree with you about Tiny’s methods. The latest is skipping an MSG event honoring all NYC Teams playing for the city championships.
As for my comment about Watts, I’ll give you some background. I was told by two people, before the season started, that he was going to play pro and that he was a big time player. I never saw this from him. I will stand by my comment as him being a slow wing player. Look at Peekskill’s roster. Is he quicker than Karl Baker? Is he quicker than Daquan Richardson? Is he quicker than D Thomas? I’m focusing on quickness and not basketball skills. Again, for emphasis, I did not say “he’s not a good basketball player, he stinks.” What I said was what I saw. I’m not the only one who feels this way. He’s just not quick. How is he going to get better if criticism is not offered?
I do watch a lot of hoops and I’m sure you do. Let me give you an example, just to clarify. I watch a lot of Big East Basketball and root for Pittsburgh because they have a lot of NY kids and one of their assistant coaches is a former NYC star: Orlando Antigua. That said, can you tell me that Ronald Ramon is quick? That he can break you down and blow past you? I can’t. However, he’s still a good basketball player. Makes smart decisions, is a terrific shooter and plays great team defense…but he’s not quick, at all. Does that mean he stinks? Of course, not. Same with Ralph.
Lincoln HS 42 – Boys HS 21 at the half at MSG
Everybody else is playing for second place Lance Stephenson and Lincoln will not be challenged, I thought Rice could play with them but Holy Cross took care of that.
I know Antigua, his brother and Ramon very well. I understand your play with words and its obvious that you come on this site to dig at folks and cause static, and then back your statements with facts. An example being that Mookie is gonna ride the bench next year. Its a fact that Cuse will be a bomb squad next year if everyone stays and Devendorf and Rautins come back healthy, but saying that on this forum, dominated by Peekskill and Section 1 fans is gonna cause conflict.
From reading your posts, its obvious that you are in touch with the city game, suburban and college. Do you think that bringing back Norm to Queens was a sound decision? If Kilpatrick goes there, does he make an impact?
Kilpatrick has NO grades.
Rileygirl
First, let me say “Finally, I’m speaking to an honest individual.”
When I say these things, I’m not bashing players. As you stated, Syracuse is going to have a really good team with three experienced guards. That’s why I wrote what I did about Mookie. If Devendorf and Rautins were not coming back, Mookie starts. It’s that simple. Thank you for noticing this. It’s really refreshing.
I loved the idea of Norm being named the St. John’s coach. He was a great recruiter at Kansas and I thought he would make an impact at St. John’s. Two things, however, have killed the program and it’s not Norm’s fault. One, they built dorms. During St. John’s glory years, they had none and the players were given a stipend for “rent.” This was perfectly legal under NCAA rules. However, the stipend was a lot more than what they were paying for “rent.” It was really tough for other area schools to compete with that. I’m not making this up, either. It was confirmed to me by an assistant coach who had tried to recruit against St. John’s. This, along with playing at the Garden, was impossible to recruit against. Now, with the dorms, that stipend, disappears. The players are still eligible to pocket Pell Grants. Perfectly legal. However, every school can do this.
Second, Mike Jarvis killed this program. When he first took this job, he stated that he was not going to kiss up to the AAU Coaches. You are in NYC. How can you not deal with AAU Coaches? LI Panthers, Team Odom, Riverside Church, Gauchos, Bronx Ravens, etc. The list is so long. It was really dumb of him and he lost out on so many players. He absolutely killed what Coach Fraschilla built. If you remember, that Final 8 team was with Coach Fran’s players.
With Norm, he’s either come in second or is treated as an afterthought. It’s not his fault. I want him to be successful and get the best city players. It’s just not happening.
As for Kilpatrick, I love his game. There is nothing he can’t do. It’s a shame, too, that he did not receive more exposure. Think about this. He did not play much AAU this summer because he needed to make up some grades. That said, at least two teams from every major conference wanted him. I really think he’s going to be a special player and if he’s academically eligibile, I think he will start. Having Boothe, Kilpatrick and Burrell will only make St. John’s better. I just hope he gets at least two more years.
Wait A Second,
I doubt Mt Vernon will play Iona or Peekskill next season. I wish they would though. I actually think playing Iona or Peekskill may help MV in a way. Playing the kind of national schedule Mt Vernon does, their opponents seem to often fall into one of three categories; 1) a team they are 40+ points better than (lots of these); 2) a league matchup that they are likely to win, but still can get up for considering the rivalries (i.e. WP, NR, Scarsdale); or 3) other prestigious programs which MV’s players seem to always get up for (i.e. Rice, Lincoln, Linden, St Rays, Paterson Catholic, etc). I don’t see many games on MV’s schedule year in year out where they are probably 10 points better than an opponent who is not a national power. Anyone who’s played or coached basketball knows those opponents that you’re 10 points better than can certainly beat you anyday if you don’t come out ready to play. A state semi-final game against Bishop Maginn (a solid program, though not of the prestige as the other programs mentioned above) in a far away gym certainly falls into this category. Mount Vernon is definitely 10 pts better than Maginn on most days, but if you get caught in a close game against a team you didn’t expect to be there with you, its sometimes a hard game to pull out. My point is that next year Mount Vernon could likely be around 10 points better than Iona and Peekskill on most days, but it helps for the playoffs to play those teams because they will certainly be up to play you and they can beat you if you’re not ready to play.
Iona/MV would be a good matchup in my opinion. If you look at the top 7 returning players on each team (MV-Wright, Lessane, Hinds, Allen, Dinham, Clarke and White; IP-Voelkel, Pope, Bronner, Carissimo, Lyde, Savage, Mack) I think they are very close in terms of talent. Sherrod Wright will most likely be the best player in Section 1 next year, I think Brian Voelkel could very well be #2. Andre Pope is up there as well. In terms of matchups, Iona would have a tough time defending Wright, Mt Vernon would match up decently against Voelkel because of their size/athleticism down low, and Iona looks like it would have the advantage in the backcourt. Iona tends to play a very disciplined style of offense and always plays tough defense. It would be an interesting matchup of styles of play contrasted with MV’s up tempo offense. Until anyone from this area beats MV, I think the Knights have to be the favorites going into any local game. However, I think Iona/MV could be very competitive.
Iona/Peekskill is a game that could happen. Coach Panzanaro has scheduled Stepinac several times in the past, so I don’t see why he wouldn’t want to play Iona and Iona seems to play anyone. Brickhouse and Bronner are two of the best point guards in the area – actually, they’ll likely be the two best next year. I think in their respective offenses, Brickhouse is more effective and would likely have the advantage. I think Voelkel would be very hard to guard down low for anyone on Peekskill. Pope could be the difference in the game – when he’s on, he’s one of the best players in the area. I’d give Iona the edge in this matchup assuming everyong comes back next year that is scheduled to. This would also be a great game – I hope it happens.
I think Mount St Michael, Poughkeepsie, Spring Valley, Roosevelt and New Rochelle will probably round out the top 8 local teams next year. With the amount of talent Poughkeepsie have coming back next year they’d have to be considered a potential challenge to Mount Vernon at the County Center. Stepinac, Scarsdale and White Plains all seem to be losing a lot, but each have some good young players so they might not be down too much. Stepinac apparently has an excellent group of players on the freshman and JV levels, not to mention the freshman Conroy Baltimore who is one of the best if not best freshman in the area this year, so I expect Stepinac to be solid.
On another note, I think next year in Section 1 will bring us back more in line with the regular talent pool in Westchester. We’ve all been spoiled the past three years with an unusually large number of major college basketball players in our area – Jonathan Mitchell, Mike Coburn, Melquan Bolding, Mookie Jones, Kevin Jones, Sean Kilpatrick, Tony Taylor and maybe Jordan Henriquez. I’ve been following basketball in this area since the early 80’s and I can’t remember a season where 5 or 6 players ended up playing major division 1 basketball. I might guess that next year’s top 5 players could be Sherrod Wright, Brian Voelkel, Winston Graham, Andre Pope and John Callarco. Of course there are always surprises and someone like Jabari Hinds could break out.
Hoops
A question for you. Why isn’t Westchester and to an extent, upstate NY, considered a hoops hotbed? You mentioned some prominent names, however, look at the history of NY State players: King Rice, Christian Laettner, Greg Koubek, Flynn and Harris from Niagara Falls. NF also has a kid that is at UMass. By all accounts, he was a major recruit who the NCAA would not allow to enroll at Auburn. The coaching is SUPERB up here. I’ve gone to various practices and TEACHING is first followed by execution. Is it because of the size of cities?
hoops fan
Excellent analysis- I think with loss of Kevin Jones, Mookie Jones, Tony Taylor etc the level of talent in Westchester next year could fall a little as the above mentioned players were all top 50-100 national players. Wright from Mt. Vernon will probably be a top 100 player. Hinds from Mt. Vernon and Baltimore from Stepinac were probably the two best Freshman. Besides Voelkel and Bronner from Iona Prep who would you say were the other top sophomores in the area??
Also Iona Prep played Peekskill I believe when Mookie Jones was an 8th grader..
Rileygirl,
Just to add one point. If St. John’s does fire Norm Roberts which I don’t advocate, the perfect replacement would be Gary DeCesare. He built a great program at St. Raymond’s and he’s been an associate HC at DePaul. His first hiring should be Mo Hicks as 1st Assistant.
St. John’s almost won a National Championship with NY Players, I’ll never forgive Carnesecca for taking out Mark Jackson and going back to Mike Moses. Worst decision, ever.
No reason they can’t get back there, again.
Speaking of teaching, Coach Hurley will be giving a clinic next week. It figures that I have to go to a play with my wife.Not to answer a question that wasnt addressed to me but I believe all college coaches know the level of talent in Section 1 and upstate NY, particularly Buffalo and Cuse. Its just that the City so overshadows the rest of the state. Buffalo or MV might produce a few D1 players every year, but you have Queens, BK and Manhattan that produce boatloads of D1 talent( if eligible).
Nyhoops, thanks for your input on SJU, Im aware of the housing and the stipend. That money helped kids like Glover and Hill because they had children and obviously the $ helps.It just seems to me like Norm is in over his head. He was brought here as an ace recruiter and I know he had success at past spots as an assistant,however, he has not brought in the talent that was promised and his execution as a leader is also lacking.Shoot, they havent even signed anyone this year . A year with the strongest Metro class in a while. He then wants to use Jarvis, the dorms… as reasons for his lack of success. I hope Kilpatrick’s grades are on point and that he does well there( if he goes).
The Areas Best Sophomores are probably 1. voelkel 2. brickhouse 3. bronner 4. brandon white
For all of the Mount Vernon fans and even the Mount Vernon Haters club, Mount Verbon will be back in the mix to win this thing again next year. They will be returning 8 seniors with experience under their belts. Trust this Sherrod Wright, Jordan Lessane, Vaughn Allen, Brandon White and Jabarie Hinds will come to play. Sleep on Mount Vernon if you want, but I will tell you that they will be back with a vengeance!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jamesville Dewitt beat East Hampton 78-54
Bishop Maginn is up 47-28 in the 3rd
There proves my theory that the best 4 teams in A and AA played each other in the semi finals.
anybody have todays results from glens falls?
State Final AA BISHIP M-68 Niagra F-37
J-D & Maginn in blowouts
prediction
Lincoln 88
Maginn 50
Lincoln is probably at least 20 points better as a squad, but the fact is that they never take the Feds seriously. Or they lose and use that as an excuse. Its amazing that a team with so much influence in a burough rich in tradition, has a coach that is such a complete dope. They are soooo talented though.
you’re right, they need to keep it together and stay interested for 2 weeks until federation, that will be their biggest challenge.
I agree with hoops fan about those players being “among” the best in Section 1 next year. But, other than Sherrod Wright I think its a big stretch to say any other player are D1 proscpect. The rest will be very good HS players nothing more. Including Ralph Watts! By the way, his moving to Peekskill was supposed to increase his chances of being “noticed”. I think the opposite took place.
We were very spoiled by the talent of the last couple of years..it will be a long time before Section 1 sees the like’s of the talent of this year.
NYCHoops,
To answer your question, NYC has the reputation as the premier basketball area in the country – I think its well deserved, but I agree with many other people’s thoughts that there are plenty of excellent players out of Westchester as well – this year particularly shows that. A big difference is obviously numbers. There are 9 million or so people in the 5 boroughs, less than 1 million in Westchester. Also, a large number of Westchester residents live in very suburban areas – the more suburban an area is usually a decent indicator for basketball futility. I actually think Westchester benefits from having some excellent coaches at the better schools. As a group Bob Cimmino, Spencer Mayfield, Murphy at NR and Panzanaro are four outstanding coaches. If there has historically been a knock on the NYC PSAL its a lack of talented, disciplined coaches. That being the case a lot of talented players don’t ever develop as much as they could with better coaches in better systems. The CHSAA is known for its outstanding coaches, many of them at their schools for well over 20 years, so I think the argument of less development doesn’t work so well in that league. I think the four coaches who I mentioned in Westchester could matchup well against any four coaches from the PSAL. I think if you took the number of ballplayers from Westchester’s less suburban/more urban areas (i.e. MV, NR, WP, Yonkers, Elmsford, Greenhurgh, Peekskill and Yonkers) and divided that by the amount of ballplayers from urban areas of NYC the difference in percentage of excellent basketball players per capita would not be that different. Sure I think there would be a higher percentage in NYC, but I think the difference would be less than most outside observers would think.
The big asterisk in that example is Yonkers. For many years, from the 60’s through the 80’s, Yonkers public schools produced some excellent basketball players. Gorton alone has I believe three NBA players (Charlie Criss, Jim Bostic and Bernard Toone). Yonkers High, Gorton, Lincoln and Roosevelt each had teams that were ranked highly in NYS polls and among the best, if not the best, in the county several times. Since the 80’s there has clearly been a big decline in the Yonkers school’s teams. A large part of this, in my opinion is coaching. When Yonkers had coaches like John Volpe/Gorton and Les Beck/Yonkers leading their them they were excellent teams. I’ve always thought that once a program was established at one of the Yonkers schools that had an excellent coach they would have a great chance to become an area powerhouse again. Now, its not fair to knock the Yonkers basketball teams without acknowledging that the city of Yonkers and its school system have had far bigger problems than just underachieving basketball programs. Certainly the poor management of the Yonkers school system as a whole can play a large part in inept basketball programs.
This year’s Roosevelt team was one of the best Yonkers teams I can remember in awhile. Winston Graham seemed to end up their by accident – I don’t know the whole story. The three best players I can remember from Yonkers prior to Graham in the last decade were all from Lincoln – Lester Hunte, Darren Johnson and Calvin Pinckney. Johnson got a scholarship and I think was eligible as a freshman at Manhattan College. Hunte is at a Juco now and I don’t think Pinckney ever got beyond the juco level, though he clearly was a D1 or good DII caliber player. I hope for Yonker’s sake that their programs can turn around and provide more opportunities for the young kids at those schools. It should also be said that because of the poor state of the Yonkers school system, many Yonkers kids end up at Iona, Mount, Stepinac, Fordham and other local private schools – this certainly has to hurt the schools and their basketball teams.
hoops fan,
Very fair assessment of MV, Peekskill and Iona going forward. I expect that Peekskill and Iona will be invited to the Slam Dunk next winter, and it would be great to see MV take another look at bypassing the scheduling of the better local teams in class “A”. As you point out, these games could provide excellent preparation for the Glen Falls run for everyone involved.
I also agree with your assessment of the sad state of Yonkers basketball. A city of nearly 200,000 people should be able to produce an excellent HS basketball team every year one would think. In addition to the dismal performance of the board of education, the lack of any reliable youth basketball program is another problem….There are dozens of CYO teams, the Yonkers PAL the YMCA, Runyon Heights, but not a single premier youth basketball program that could attract the top players from the city. Yonkers youth basketball is the equivalent of 20 small villages doing there own thing. By the time the better players are ready for high school, it is every man for himself. Either you attend a catholic or private high school or establish residency in a school district that has a good basketball tradition.
I agree the national rated talent is going to be down next year. Scout has Sherrod Top 75 and he will likely be the last Top 100 till Jabarie from MV potentially. As Voekel from IP and Brickhouse from Peekskill will be Top 150 potentially. My personal opinion, after seeing Dequan live at both JD games and on TV vs WP that he goes major D1 or a great guard school i.e. xavier or st. joes
By the way… my evaluation of Voekel is based on this blog so maybe my evaluation of Voekel should be inc.
Rileygirl
I could not agree with you more about Tiny. I’m sure there are coaches who have skeletons in their closet. However, Tiny has such a “screw you I’m Tiny Morton” attitude that it’s almost impossible to like him. He’s had the Navigator and Adidas $ investigation, the poaching of players, the whole recruitment of Lance Stephenson and Bishop Loughlin, taking his team off the court because he received technicals and Bassie Telfair had fouled out. He’s a hard guy to root for. It’s too bad, though. Six city crowns in seven years. Instead of celebrating this and embracing him, people can’t stand him. He thinks it’s because he wins too much. That’s just ridiculous. I’ve never heard anyone say a bad thing about Bob Hurley, Sr., Jack Curran, Tom Murray, etc. Like I said, it’s a shame because he played for such a great coach in Bobby Hartstein.
D1,
I’d venture to say that you haven’t seen Voelkel yet. He definitely has the looks of D1 player. He doesn’t have the upside that Mookie or Kevin Jones had – but at this point in his career I would say he is a more complete player than they were as sophomores. I don’t see Voelkel as a Big East caliber player at this point, but definitely a solid mid-major player and he could certainly improve. Pope is also probably a Patriot league caliber player and apparently he is already being recruited at the Patriot/MAAC level. Winston Graham is also a kid who seems to have the looks of a D1 player. I’m not sure about Brickhouse and Watts yet – Brickhouse needs to develop a perimeter game and Watts has some work to do – yet both have the potential. Antoine Mason and Jabari Hinds are two players who I think will have big years next year and could certainly be D1 players. There is also a big kid, a sophomore, David Samuels, from Blessed Sacrament that could become a D1 caliber player. Out of all the kids MV has coming back next year (i.e. Lessane, Clarke, Dinham, Allen, White) I wouldn’t be surprised if at least one of them landed a MAAC level scholarship. Conroy Baltimore, Stepinac’s freshman, has some growing to do physically and on his game, but he certainly has the potential. Thats at least 10 potential D1 players I can think of in the mix next year. New Rochelle also has a sophomore, Joe Godette, who played as a freshman at Stepinac, before transferring – he has a lot of maturing to do, but he has the size and skill to maybe be a D1 player if he gets it together. Bronner was a very promising freshman last year at Iona – the first freshman I can remember on their varsity. I don’t think I saw as much improvement from Bronner this year as I expected. He also saw his playing time decrease in certain games such as the city championship game. If Bronner keeps developing he could be a D1 player.
Iona Power,
In terms of best sophomores – I would say 1-Voelkel, 2-Brickhouse, 3-Mason, 4-Bronner, 5-White. As far as freshman, I would say Hinds and Baltimore are definitely the top two I’ve seen.
NYCHoops,
Great points about Tiny Morton. He really is an easy guy to dislike from a distance. He’s actually a nicer guy if you talk with him face-to-face and he knows his basketball, but I agree some of things he’s done are highly questionable. I can never accept poaching players from other high school teams – and not only has he done it this year from Xaverian and a couple years ago from Bishop Loughlin (Stephenson) but he took a player from Grady – their archrival, a few blocks away – thats tough to overlook.
Voelkel, Bronner and Brickhouse will be playing together on the Westchester Hawks AAU 16u team this season…Brandon White played 2 years ago with Voelkel and Bronner,..
Brian Voelkel will be a D1 player. His father,Ray,played for American U and still holds the NCAA record for consecutive field goals made..Either 23 or 24 over 5 or 6 games…...Brian is further along today than Ray was at 16 years old in my opinion…
hoops fan:
baltimore is going to be special…same with voelkel….as far as sophomore’s don’t forget dustin hougue from lincoln.
I heard on the gamecast that Lincoln actually scrimmaged St. Anthony’s and lost by a point. Further, Coach Hurley said that LS was the best player he has faced, all year. Quite a compliment considering all the talent he faced this season.
I remember reading how he faced off against OJ Mayo as an 8th grader. Some reports claimed he was out of his element (Seth Davis) while others said he more than held his own. Actually getting to watch footage, he was simply sensational. Sixteen points and various dunks. He was in the 8th grade!!
I hope he can stay on the path for another season and does not end up like Lenny Cooke. ESPN cover story, the great hype and flamed out, quickly. A sad tale.
http://beat.bodoglife.com/sports/oden-dominates.html
Ray Voelkel actually hit 25 consecutive field goals in 1978. The record still stands today in NCAA D1 basketball…The link above mentions Ray when Greg Odom hit 17 consecutive field goals.
I’ve never seen Hogue, though I hear he’s tough. Who are are going to be the local players on the Hawks’ 17U, 16U and 15U teams this year?
Kevin, great job covering hoops this season! When it comes to high school hops coverage and NYS basketball in particular you da man! No one even compares.
I happen to know Taran Buie quite well, even had a chance to say hello to Paul Hewitt and his assistant both of whom were there to see Sherrod and Buie as well as watch the other big-time prospect on the floor, Kevin Jones. Hewitt was impressed enough with the play of Buie that he offered him a scholarship yesterday.
Will continue to follow your excellent journalistic talents. Keep up the great work!
This is the first Selection Sunday that I can remember reading about two girls championships and zero boys championships. I still can’t believe that they both lost. Great seasons for both of them. Great careers for Mookie and Kevin. Good luck in the Big East. I have to admit that I will be rooting for Mookie more though. GO ORANGE!
Lincoln does not care about the Feds all they care about is the city title now its like seasons over for them
Someone mentioned Dustin Hogue before from the Westchester Hawks. I realized he didn’t play this year for Lincoln. Anyone know why? or if he’ll be back next year at Lincoln?
I have read that Coach Donovan offered Bouie earlier in the year.I was not in G Falls, but I heard that Wright didnt have his best game.Hes taken some hits on syracuse.com. I have seen him play numerous times and I think hes gonna be special, we talked about SJU before and I would love him to land there( unlikely). Speaking of OJ MAYo, I was at the ABCD camp the summer before his senior year, he came up to myself and my daughter and spoke with us a few minutes. He was very charming , the complete opposite of the way hes been viewed in many publications
Not true Rileygirl. Although Donovan and assistant Rob Lanier took the team plane to Albany to see a Bishop Maginn practice, they have not offered Taran. Some have claimed that SU has offered, but that hasn’t happened yet although I’m sure it is likely.
I didnt say it was a fact, I read it, thank you for the clarification
Maybe if Mount Vernon played PEEKSKILL in JANUARY and FEBRUARY in a HOME N HOME SERIES BOTH TEAMS WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER PREPARED FOR FINAL 4!!!!!!!!
Mount Vernons schedule more than prepared them for the matchup. They didnt do at the end of the game what they have done in almost every other close game.
hoops fan:
if you don’t mind me asking what high school / college did you attend? understood if you don’t want to answer. i believe dustin did not play b/c of a knee injury.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/highschool/basketball/ny-skcham175616939mar17,0,5356859.story
Looks like Bishop Ford may be playing Jamesville-Dewiit in the Federation Tournament. Chaz Williams scored 32 against Chaminade yesterday in a 10 point win….Reading the linked article, it does not appear that the game was that close, however..
chsaa
I believe Bishop Ford has to beat Long Island Luthern on the 28th first, in order to advance to play against Jamesville DeWitt.
Hoops,
You are correct. Ford v LiLu and J-D v PSAL (TBD 3/22) in the semis 3/28 in Glen Falls.
chsaa
By the way, Bishop Ford beating Long Island Lutheran is a very tall order for Bishop Ford. Expect to see LIL vs JD in the Fed final. I have seen both teams up close and personal!
OK Hoops,
I will take your insight under advisement…...I have watched Bishop Ford 5 times this season. It seems they have been playing more inspired down the stretch and in the playoffs. I would not count Chaz Williams out just yet. He seems to be able to reach inside and will his team to victory when all appears lost..
Dustin didn’t play with Lincoln this year because of a knee injury
bball fan,
I went to Stepinac. I’m still a big Stepinac fan and I enjoy watching and following all of Westchester hoops. I have a lot of respect for Coach Cimmino, Coach Panzanaro, Coach Murphy, Coach Quirolo and Coach Mayfield and I root for and watch their programs when I can.
Rileygirl,
I certainly think MV’s schedule prepared them very well for the post-season, particularly the NYPHSAA championship game and the Federation championships. My only point was that their schedule doesn’t see them face many teams like Maginn where there are probably 10-15 better than their opponentand it not being a nationally renowned program or local league rivalry. Then again, maybe this is just my rational to try to convince the powers that be to schedule a game against Iona Prep or Peekskill next year and in years to come.
Rileygirl
I doubt Mt. Vernon will schedule any non league teams from Westchester. Mt. Vernon has earned the right to be considered a nationa power and will play in National tournaments as well as playing the topp CHSAA AA teams. If Mt. Vernon plays a CHSAA school it will be the likes of St. Raymonds and Bishop Loughlin nad not Iona Prep. Coach Cimmino probably feels he has nothing to gain by beating Iona Prep while a win over St. Raymonds would be big.
The shame of it is that next year Iona Prep may have the horses to give Mt. Vernon all they could handle. A venue like Iona College would be a basketball fans treat.
You fellas said it correctly, MV wins nothing by beating Peekskill or Iona Prep. I was actually at the last MV Peekywood game at Peekskill. There wasnt any fights, but there was a definite threat of things perhaps getting out of control. Unless the game between MV and Peekskill was at the County Center, it would probably be unsafe to have it at either home gym.I have known Vic a while and I used to play ball with he and Preston in Greenburgh, hes done a great job with the hoops and football teams at Iona, but MV still beats them next year( my opinion)
chsaa
Long Island Luthern has 3 good guards and actually 2 that are very , very good they also have two big men that more than held their own vs. Kevin Jones at MV. I have not seen Ford but judging by the problems that Voekyl gave them They are going to have a very tough time with LIL.
In the end I still think its DeWitt, who may actually be the only team that could give Lincoln a run for the money(Fed).
NYC_Hoops27, DeCesare would not be a good hire at St. John’s, memories are long in NYC Hoop circles, and he pissed too many people off during his days at St. Ray’s, starting with creating the ravens AAU squad because he wasn’t happy with the Gauchos. Also, Mo Hicks makes way too much money coaching Rice, and has too much stability to leave to be an assistant. You don’t think he has had many offers to be a head coach at a mid-major? Everytime there is an opening at Manhattan that is the first call they make, and he turns them down every time. Why would you turn down any D1 head coaching job to take an assistant position under a first time college head coach? doesn’t make any sense.
Forget about DeCesare – Mo Hicks might be the hire that St John’s needs. Hicks would be as likely as anyone to bring some blue-chip New York players to SJU. Between Rice, Gauchos and the rest of the CHSAA, Hicks would be almost guaranteed to bring in a couple of the premier NYC players in his first couple years. SJU has been best when they bring in players who are among the top 3 in NYC (i.e. Mullin, Werdann, Sealy, Artest, Barkley), not top 10 caliber players, like they’ve been getting recently or too many out of state players.
The fact is that anyone with any connection to NY hoops could do a better job than what Coach Roberts has done. Mo has many enemies, as does Tiny but the fact is that they hold their buroughs down and get top players form other parts of the city as well.Not trying to make anyone out to be a liar, but the call to Hicks is probably more in terms of who could do well in this position at Manhattan, than a formal job offer.Manhattan is considered a Mid, but they are held in very high regard throughout the basketball community and I doubt that either would get the position without any college coaching experience.Hurley and Cimmino are two of the very few coaches that would be offered this.
I do wish that SJU would hire an assistant with ties to the community and that has a shot at getting kids.The best way to do this would try and get Coach MAyfiled as a top assistant or Crabby Young. Mayfield is one of the top coaches in the state and Young has the experience playing at a high level and coaching under Cimmino. This would also thaw the ice ebtween MV and SJU
st. john’s at this stage in the game is almot impossible to win! with all due respect i can’t believe people would actually think young or mayfield would be able to recruit “big east” caliber players to st. john’s. fred “q” is one of the best recruiters in the college game (did a great job at n carolina) and is having a hard time getting the players… and you think mayfield and young can – no way! cimmino is a good coach but please stop putting him in the same sentence as hurley – please! hurley is one of the best coach’s there is – period – on any level. hurley is the only exception to the rule of going right from high school to a big-time d-1 program and potentially getting it done – the only exception. the bottom line is this..st. john’s runs a clean program. the sooner you figure that out you will realize why they are not getting the “michael beasley’s” “kemba walkers” “lance stephenson’s”...etc. st. john’s is getting good mid-major players that are good but just can win in the “big east” the best conference in college – they are not getting the “one and done” type players – that’s it plain and simple i.e. malik booth would be a good solid maac player – i’m sorry i love the kid but he is not a big east player! cimmino, young, mayfield, hicks are no where near the answer. st. john’s needs calapari or pitino the type of d-1 coach’s that have great credible resume’s (at the collegiate level not high school) where some of the big time recruits would want to play for! you can’t be a varsity high school basketball coach in sect. 1 or the chsaa with a couple of city and state titles and think you are going to be a “big east” coach…i’m sorry and i don’t mean to be disrespectful but some of the statements that are made on this blog are just crazy! and again st. john’s runs a “CLEAN” program!
outsider
you are absolutely correct! many things go into making a good college level D1 coach/program. most of those things are probably present in a GREAT high school coach. however the most important things are generally not. kinda like real estate, the 3 most important things are location, location and location. college recruting 3 most important things are recruiting, recruiting and recruiting!
at the d1 level its simple great players make great coaches, end of story. just because you can recruit from one town or league isnt going to get it done. credibility, salesmanship, fairness and toughness. the ability to court a kid and then get him to work after you talk him down from the recruiting process, none of those things happen overnight.
who you recruit as an assitant will determine if you get a head coaching job, oh, and who GRADUATES….NO ONE GOES FROM STEWARDESS TO PILOT!
Roberts also got kids at Illinois and Kansas. Or was it Self? Coach Fran seemed to get the kids to Queens, are you saying he cheated? I mentioned Mayfield( works for the NBA) and Young as examples of assistants who might help with a pipeline from Section 1 to Queens , there is no doubt that they would be able to get kids to come ( as assistants). Coach Q is the worst example to give, Carolina picks their kids and if hes one of the best recruiters in the game, why didnt he close on ONE player in this years class? The Metro class this year is stacked, Walker, Syl, SAmuels, Kevin Jones, Mookie, Truck( who wanted to go to SJU in the summer) Q signed NONE. I know hes a local guy and I give him props for this, but there are coaches out there that that would get some of the cities kids to stay home.
I also said that Cimmino and Hurley are of the “few coaches that would be offered a mid level job”, not BE ,while its obvious ya know SJU and their problems, your tangent was unnecessary
hoops:
i agree. in any sport on any level recruiting is the most important aspect of the game / business. i include the word business b/c at the college level that’s exactly what it is. the only chance you are going to have keeping the top players from new york (and even outside new york) to come to st. john’s , is by getting a top-notch “million dollar” coach i.e. pitino, roy williams, boeheim, coach k, calapari…etc where players will feel that they have a chance to win…at least that’s my opinion. aside from that aspect, why would a “blue chip” want to go to st. john’s when he can go to duke, carolina, pitt, uconn, syracuse, etc. the biggest selling point for st. john’s is to play at the GARDEN,and at the rate the knicks are going i would rather play at the county center then MSG!
so rileygirl you honestly think if mayfield or young were at st. john’s they are going to be able to sell st. john’s to players like sylven, lance, beasely, tyreke evans, jennings??? no way, they are going to go to established winning programs with established winning coach’s that have a better campus, facilities, chance at getting to the tournament…etc! maybe they would get kilpatrick, kevin jones, and mookie, but again none of those players are going to be the players that are going to bring a “big east team” to the next level, again that is just my opinion. i think those players are good, but i don’t think they will be good “big east players” there is a difference. hoops i agree to a certain extent that great players make great coach’s – BUT CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE ME AN EXPLANATION FOR ISAIAH!!!!! (just kidding!)
new york is tough b/c fans want to see not just results….but IMMEDIATE results…riley girl i am not going on a tangent, just stating my opinion, i’m sure some will agree, and some will not agree….not a big deal this blog is suppose to make for good / healthy talk! i think mayfield and cimmino are good coach’s no doubt about it…i just don’t think they would do anything in the big east.
Thanks for the input. Im trying to get that anything is better than what we have. And Cal and Majerus wanted to come to SJU when Jarvis was fired, if they were here, we would be in a way, way better position than we are now. Louie, I believe, still wants to be the face of the organization and wouldnt stand for a coach of the stature of Calipari. My problem with the Roberts regime is that they are using Jarvis,the facilities… as reasons for their complete lack of success. I dont want the team consisting mainly of Westchester kids, but Westchesters best this year are two of the top 45 players in the country( on paper). Sherrod Wright will be a top 75 player next year.
Seton Hall and SJU are basically in the same position except Gonzo and D PLayer are selling the heck out of their school. They have a solid class coming and they are in the mix with Evans and Ebanks. RU , which is a joke of a program has a top 15 player, from the best team, coached by the best coach in high school coming in , they are also in the mix for Ebanks and Evans. These kids would talk to it seems anyone but the SJU staff. The man and his staff seem to be over their head. A lead assistant, Blaney type is maybe what they need
rileygirl
Dont underestimate what Ray Rice and Rutgers Football are doing for Rutgers Basketball and Fred Hill. First of all big exposure and much more $$$$$$ for All of the Athletic Programs. Campus improvements, training center, and EXPOSURE…To call Rutgers program a Joke? well put it this way..wasnt it a few years back that someone said that about their Football team? Rutgers Hoop is on the RISE! Believe it. SJU is nowhere and a Big East program without a Footballl team is limited …take a look at what UCONN is doing/done with Football. It secures the future for both sports, one without the other is very tough unless your on tobacco road!
rileygirl:
i respect your input and agree with most of what you stated. as i mentioned before, the big east is a sick conference! seton hall and rutgers on the rise? they are doing a good job and improving but they are just in the wrong league. look at the tourney – 8 TEAMS from the big east – that’s crazy…you are right ebanks and evans are in the mix – but that’s all they are – in the mix and they will not get those players so at the end of the day “in the mix” means nothing. and not only are those schools competing with 8 better teams in their league, they are competing with the other leagues: acc, sec, big 12, pacific 10, big 10…it’s crazy and going to be almost impossible to win (it’s almost not even fair)! st. john’s / seton hall / rutgers right now would be good atlantic 10 teams – again that’s just my opinion. the theory works the other way as well…memphis is awesome but look at their league! they are the only team in their conference that made it to the tourney (i think)!!! now put sj / seton hall / rutgers in conference usa and one of those teams (at least) is in the tourney – and now all of a sudden “norm” is a good coach doing a good job! it’s all relative to who you are playing – just like in high school. people knock norm….that means if hill and gonzo don’t have winning records in the big east (in the next 2 or 3 years) and a potential shot to make the ncaa tourney aside from the big east tourney – then they have to go. b/c at the end of the day, fans / alumni want their teams to win and win fast, possibly be top 3 or five in their respective conference and make a run in the tourney! should be interesting the next couple of years and unfortunately in d-1 college basketball, time is never on the coach’s side! even when some of these great coach’s win – it’s still not enough – they get fired…tubby smith is the perfect example!!!
here is my proposal for st. john’s:
BOB KNIGHT – HEAD COACH
BOB HURLEY – ASST. COACH
THAT’S IT! you don’t need anyone else – how insane would that be and how many players do you think would get beat up!!!!
riley girl / hoops – what do you think??? (we might have something here)!!
Rileygirl,
with all due respect, Quartlebaum is one of the most highly regarded recruiters in the county. He’s a local guy (Stepinac/Fordham U/Riverside Church) and has coached and recruited at tons of places (UNC, Kansas, Iowa St, etc). If you know anything about scholarship limits, one of the main reasons they haven’t signed anyone yet this year is they signed 8 players last year. An argument can be made that maybe they shouldn’t have signed 8 guys last year, constricting this year’s class – but that is a choice solely up the head coach. In regards to Roberts, he does have local ties – he coached at Molloy under Jack Curran and happens to be from Queens.
SJU did give too many ships last year. 7 and Rob Thomas sitting out for it seems like an eternity. They do have 2 available now and this year there was a ton of great talent out there to be plucked, they have signed none. The ones they might are mid level prospects. Norm was horrible at Queens .Places like Kansas and UNC sell themselves. What he did as an assistant mean zero because he hasnt done it in the big spot both his stops as a head man in Queens. I wish I was wrong, I hope next year they do great and build a solid foundation, but hes had a large number of kids transfer and has brought in MAYBE 2 Big East type players in Burrell and Q. Q left, as did Torres, Jackson, Gray. Wright will probably be next
dustin hogue is going to be ok,i seen him play already he looks great.i think because of him lincoln from yonkers is going to do great this year.